Topic: 13 killed in Philippines shootout

[godo12345]

On Monday, Inquirer sources in the Philippine National Police in Camp Crame and PRO4 headquarters in Canlubang, Laguna, claimed that Marantan launched the operation to eliminate Victorino “Vic Siman” Atienza Jr., a known jueteng operator and “godfather” of STL bookies in Laguna and Batangas provinces.

Atienza was one of the 13 passengers of two Montero sports utility vehicles who were killed by police and Army soldiers in an alleged encounter along the Maharlika Highway in Atimonan, Quezon, on Sunday afternoon.
According to several informants, a sibling of Marantan was allegedly also a jueteng operator and a rival of Atienza in the illegal gambling business in Laguna.

The information gave rise to the suspicion that the Army and police operation, which resulted to the bloody shootout, was allegedly “arranged” by Marantan–by giving the Quezon law enforcers information that a crime gang was passing through the area–to get back at Atienza for encroaching on the gambling turf of Marantan’s brother

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/337305/police-officer-in-quezon-shootout-denies-jueteng-operator-tag

bakit kaya ang dami nilang dalang baril? plausible yung sa jueteng.

sir meteor freak, pahingi naman ng link ng mga pictures. tia.

[meteor freak]

bakit kaya ang dami nilang dalang baril? plausible yung sa jueteng.

sir meteor freak, pahingi naman ng link ng mga pictures. tia.

sorry sir pero yung mga pictures ay naka post sa isang group page sa facebook pero binura na din nung uploader dahil nga sa maselan yung kaso at parehong alagad ng batas ang involved, siguro pag nabigyan na ng linaw na yung kaso saka niya ilalabas yung mga photos. sayang hindi ko na save kagad lahat bago niya binura.

[BlueAlphaZero]

fuck human rights... nawala na human rights nila nung gumawa sila ng krimen,,,

I disagree. When we start to fall into this line of thinking, we run the risk of going down a slippery slope that might prove impossible to climb back from in the end. We must never become the monsters that we set out to fight.

[praeto_RYAN]

there are so many things thats wrong in this incident.  R2 higher up conducting checkpoint operation?  in short intelligence operative "showing up" in public brandishing a long firearm?  would that "burn" him and blow his cover?  should they (intel) be low-profile as the nature of their job calls for them to be?  ah, kaya pala nakasibilyan!  para hindi mapagkamalang pulis!  pero nasa checkpoint at kasama mga pulis at sundalo.  at kaya pala maliwanag (as prescribed in the rules of engagement of PNP) ang lugar ng checkpoint para hindi "masunog" ang mga intel na yan. i pity the other operatives in this operation, the other policemen and soldiers, they don't even know the exact purpose or reason of their operation - they simply followed orders.

[Pall-Eren-Mnr]

at ano ang gustong ALISIN sa "limelight?"  sin tax, rh?

mahirap magsalita 

[rickpets]

rubout yan. kung mga hitman talaga yung niratrat, hindi lang sa paa ang tama ng nasa checkpoint.

[2fear!]

daming tsismis....

kailan ko kaya malalaman ang tunay na storya?

[dweizz]

paano kaya takbo ng istorya kung yung mga nakasakay sa van ang buhay?

[praeto_RYAN]

the criminal aspect of those killed in the "encounter" is beginning to crumble. 

"Roxas said 13 of the 14 guns recovered in the slain men’s vehicles were licensed. Only seven of these, however, had permits-to-carry."

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/289441/news/nation/checkpoint-police-in-atimonan-massacre-not-in-uniform-pnp-chief

it defies logic if a criminal will commit a crime, he'd be bringing and using a licensed firearms.  likewise, if they are really going to commit a criminal activity, id believe at least 1/3 of them would be bringing two firearms.  or at least, i'd be seeing one or two grenade.  lets assume that of the 13, 3 would only act as spotters, that would still mean 10 actual players and i'd expect more firearms.  i won't be surprised if per FA, there will only be one to three magazines of ammos each.  going to an "operation", i'd bring MANY ammos.  the point is, it is probable that their LOAD-OUT is for their daily carry and not for something BIG.

i'd want to see the listing of recovered firearms and ammos as well as other items recovered in the CRIME SCENE. 

[praeto_RYAN]

lifted from press conference given by Sec. Mar Rojas with regards the incident.

14 firearms recovered from 2 SUV

2 long FA = 2 rifle = 1 M14 PNP-issued (7.62 caliber) and 1 licensed "Armalite" (baka nga Colt ito and not armalite as mentioned)

12 short FA or presumably pistols. 

of the 14 firearms mentioned, 13 are licensed (2 rifles, 11 short FA).

of the 11 short FA, 7 had permit to carry or PTCFOR (permit to carry firearms outside of residence)

"Armalite" no permit to carry.  PNP issued M14 presumably may mission order.

http://dzmm.abs-cbnnews.com/news/National/8_sa_13_nasawi_sa_Quezon_shooting,_positibo_sa_paraffin_test_-_Sec._Roxas.html

likewise, sa mga pics at video na nakita ko, it is appearing na sarado ang lahat ng bintana ng dalawang SUV.  WOW!!!  balak siguro bingihin ng mga nasa loob ng SUV ang sarili nila kung binalak nila or nagpaputok nga sila ng mga baril nila, lalo na yung M14!

[ericjohn1986]

Somebody from the crime scene took some photos and uploaded it on Facebook, hindi ko po alam kung bawal po ba ipakita ito while the investigation is still going on so i'll just post some, pero siguro makikita na din mamaya sa news kung ano nangyari sa crime scene. I'm calling the attention of the moderators to check kung bawal po ito paki delete nalang agad. Thank you.




Credit goes to the original uploader of this photos.

That might be the red big bag on the first pic allegedly containing P30 million that was now all of a sudden disappear. Hmm I smell something fishy. This is just the tip of the iceberg

[meteor freak]

Hindi magtatagal ay lalabas din ang tunay na dahilan ng shootout, maaaring may misyon din yung 13 namatay pero wala pa nakakaalam kung iligal o official na mission yung kanilang pakay, maaari na ang misyon nila ay eliminate yung jueteng at STL sa laguna which is allegedly run by sibling of Marantan (officer in charge sa operation) at kalabang mortal sa negosyo nung isa sa namatay, parang lumalabas dito na nanaig ang mas may kapangyarihan, nagkaunahan lang sa pag eliminate. Abangan sa mga susunod na araw kung malalaman natin kung ano talaga ang misyon ng 13 namatay na sinasabi ng kanilang mga kaanak, pero kung yun ay official mission lumabas na agad a day after the incident, pero walang nakaaalam. I just pray that the truth and justice will prevail.

[abusado2]

Parang Maguindanao Massacre ang nangyari... (Hinarang sa Checkpoint tapos pinagbabaril, kulang nalang backhoe)

[godo12345]

parang rub out talaga ang nangyari. this is just my opinion:
si vic siman ay kilalang bigtime operator ng stl sa laguna. ang kapatid naman ni marantan ay (ayon sa chismis) operator din ng stl at jueteng sa laguna na kilala din rival ni siman. since bigtime operator itong si siman, let's assume na may death threat na sa kanya, normal lang siguro na magdala siya ng body guards at armas. since taga laguna siya, malamang alam niya kung saan ang mga existing check point sa lugar. at dahil bago lang ang checkpoint, siguro ay nagulat siya kaya hindi siya tumigil sa unang check point, at nung pangalawang check point na ay nakita niya ang kapatid ng rival nya na nag aabang sa gilid ng kalsada, naka civilian lang at may dalang baril, kaya pinaputukan niya ito, at yun nga, 13 ang patay.
itong si marantan naman, minanipula ang PNP para gumawa ng task force para patayin si vic siman. minanipula niya ang pnp para lumabas na legal ang pagpatay kay siman.

pangalawang theory ay ang gun for hire. ayon sa reports ay may security agency itong si vic siman. kadalasan kasi mas madami kang makukuhang gun for hire sa mga security agency. siguro ay may "big project" sila at natiyempuhan naman sila ng police.

[gkhan]

At this point, let us just base our hypotheses on physical evidence at hand: 1) There are police and military people in the company of known operators of the numbers game in an ungodly hour and in a no man's land; and 2) There are unlicensed high powered firearms carried by the victims.  Is it the job of a top police or military man to be escorts of a numbers game operator? What on earth are those military men doing at that hour when they are supposed to be family men, that day being a Sunday? If those military men are on a military mission, did the SOCO people find a Mission Order in the physical possession of the victims? Is there a log of any communications coordination with their superiors prior to the actual time of the incident? Was there a written instruction in the physical possession of the victims tending to indicate their mission instructions, objectives, mission parameters and team composition?  If they are on a mission, there must be communication equipment, aside from their cellphones, in their physical possession.  Barring none, those police and military people are on a private enterprise.

Even on citizen's arrest, any private citizen can proceed to arrest someone about to commit a crime. Anyone in the possession of an unlicensed high powered firearm can be deemed on the spot as someone about to commit a crime. Even if Mr. Hansel may not be in uniform, he can claim that he is a citizen about to arrest someone who is about to commit a crime.  At this point, statements about jueteng or turf are pure conjectures and speculations and will never hold water in a court of law.

[praeto_RYAN]

clear ko lng, there are two HPRFL or high powered rifle recovered, one "armalite" (5.56) and one PNP-issued M14 (7.62) as mentioned in Sec. Roxas' press conference.  also, including all the short firearms, there is only one unlicensed firearm.  hence, technically, there is not one unlicensed high powered firearms.

likewise, given that those people involved are police and military, them being outside on a sunday doesn't mean that they are not on duty.  police and military duty, unlike regular government employees that only work on weekdays, covers even saturdays, sundays and holidays. 

the only possible illegal action or illegal "mission" that those on the SUVs are doing is probably "moonlighting" or doing side jobs by providing escort services for some shady characters, like an STL operator.  but does being with an STL operator justify the death they were given? 

[Fiz]

Very nice insights from gkhan and praeto_RYAN.

STL is not enough for it is a legal enterprise.  Even Marantan's alibi who surprisingly is now a high-level officer in the police is not enough. .

A comment from our "kapihan" with some people inside says that Marantan was so fixated with the target that it became an obsession.  This is similar to Ampatuan's goals in Maguindanao and the  FBI officer who caught former Director Patreaus of the CIA.

But also the comment from inside was "it is a blessing" that this happened as it exposes the dirt within the AFP and PNP.  The closing remark was Marantan committed a grave mistake of killing officers from both PNP and AFP.

[praeto_RYAN]

Very nice insights from gkhan and praeto_RYAN.

STL is not enough for it is a legal enterprise.  Even Marantan's alibi who surprisingly is now a high-level officer in the police is not enough. .

although STL is a "legal enterprise", it is still being exploited to give "protection to those engaged in jueteng".   how can they do such?  simple.  they just put a small amount of their collection in STL and majority in "jueteng collection".  if the formerly called "KUBRADORS" and now known as "STL collectors" get accosted by authorities, they simply present their STL credentials.  this is the reason why a lot of officials have the guts to say that their jurisdiction is "jueteng-free".  STL is being used as a front for jueteng!  that is also the reason why an already standing "proposal" to give "mobile thermal printers" to STL collectors didn't push thru since a mobile thermal printers "MIGHT" introduce "check and balance" to their STL / jueteng operation, which they would not like to happen.

they may swear it is just STL, but however you'd look at it, the bottomline here is still jueteng. 

i also despise the fact that those police and soldiers in the SUVs are "moonlighting" as private bodyguards for shady characters, however, that can never justify their deaths.  bring them to trial.  get to the real root of the problem, and not silence them.  it pains me seeing their family members swearing on their dead relatives integrity.  totoong may mali silang ginawa, pero malamang sa hindi, hindi sila mga hardened-criminals, like how they are being portrayed now by those who were present during the incident.  ika nga "dead men tell no tales".

just my insight on the incident. 

[praeto_RYAN]

akala ko speculations lng yung nawawalang bag (pera), may witness pala.  as to the amount, yun malamang ang mananatiling speculations.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/nation/regions/01/11/13/another-bag-missing-quezon-%E2%80%98shootout%E2%80%99

[gkhan]

Ang dami naman kasi paraan ng pag transfer ng malaking cash without physically carrying it eh magsugal pa sila ng buhay nila transporting it across a no man's land.  That should serve as a lesson to people who wants to transport a sizable cash - never to carry it in your person. If meron cash na dala, which is hypothetical at this point, I am sure na may nakakita nun isinakay yun sa SUV at dinala nun tao and that guy/gal who saw the act is privy to the group's activities. That person should have given some information to someone that the convoy is carrying a sizable cash. Naalala ko tuloy yun Kuratong Baleleng Gang. That source of info might be a deep undercover guy which may have been the source of info of Senyor Hansel re the group's activities.  Kung baga eh gravy na lang yun pera pero they still bagged the guys.

[raberdaki]

marantan is on his own now... isa isa na siyang linalaglag ng kanyang mga superiors

[Fiz]

marantan is on his own now... isa isa na siyang linalaglag ng kanyang mga superiors

It turned out this is not the case.  My God is Region IV-A (correct me if I am wrong) the most corrupt PNP and AFP command?  Look at this common denominator: Quezon (at lease a dozen died) + Laguna (at least 4 dead) + Batangas (bold killing by police after the ambush, 1 Dead).

Only higher ups (or powerful warlords/clans) can give the blessing to operate at this level of the game.

[praeto_RYAN]

higher-ups probably are just trying to fix loose ends, screw-ups that might implicate them in the problem.  marantan, probably will be on his own, which was what happened from day one.

as to transferring the huge sum of money electronically, they'd probably wont want traces of the transaction around for the authorities to see.  baka masilip ng AMLAC. 

as to Region 4A being the most corrupt AOR for both PNP and AFP command, probably you are wrong.  i'd have some bets on that criteria, however id rather keep it myself.  been to Laguna and to their RC and they operate like any other units in the philippines.  it is just that they (marantan's group) made a grave mistake and the image of the whole regional command is put in a bad light.

the reason why i say that another location bagged the most corrupt in my books, is that only in such location have i seen blatant exchange of money between two uniformed, even discussing its origin, with civilians an earshot away!

[Fiz]

We also considered that.  But the weird thing is Marantan was stripped of authority, so the Batangas large scale raid for one person (overkill) was under a different boss.  Also why would the generals risk (if to cover loose ends) another illegal raid when the new PNP chief is practically holding the case in his hands.

And mind you, Marantan called some superior officers by name only in media reports - a blatant disregard of tradition and respect to officers within his own unit.  And usually if this is the case something is abrewing.

I might be wrong in pinpointing Region IV-A but my God some of the colonels are my classmates in graduate studies - when you get higher in action and maturity they "get holier" (at least in outside appearance - what more if you blatantly disregard the chief PNP?).  So imagine what screw-up it will be for the country if these region IV-A colonels and generals will be allowed to ascend to even higher national positions.

sigh... This is very sad in whatever angle you look at it.

[agnet_0]

my goodness.. ang dami pa namang check point sa mga dinadaanan ko dito sa bulacan!  

parang ang lumalabas e pag may nakaaway kang pulis or afp personnel madali ka lang nila maitutumba.   pagmumukain lang na pumalag ka sa checkpoint.   sasabihin shoot out.   madali nga naman magplant ng baril at iputok to gamit yung kamay mo kapag patay ka na.