Topic: Coast Guard to buy old French Navy vessel

[A7x]

MANILA, Philippines—In a bid to boost its offshore search and rescue capabilities, the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) is set to acquire a 26-year-old former French Navy vessel worth 6 million euros (about P345.5 million).

According to Coast Guard commandant Rear Adm. Rodolfo Isorena, the new acquisition would be very useful in the performance of the agency’s functions, including maritime law enforcement, safety and environmental protection.

He said the 54.8-meter French Navy vessel “La Tapageuse” is multifunctional and would be a major contribution to the PCG fleet.

Under its current specification, the vessel has a built-in one 40-millimeter antiaircraft gun, one 20-mm antiaircraft canon and two 7.62-mm machine guns.

Isorena said the procurement of the vessel has already been approved by Transportation and Communications Secretary Joseph Emilio Abaya.

The PCG would be acquiring the second-hand La Tapageuse at a reasonable price and it would undergo dry-docking for repair and refurbishing during the next nine months in France. It is expected to arrive in the country in April next year.

The PCG chief explained that while the vessel is already 26 years old and was used by the French Navy, it was thoroughly inspected and was assessed that it can still be effectively used for another 20 years.

He also said that the Philippine government is finalizing discussions with the French government for other purchases, namely four brand-new 24-meter and one 82-m multipurpose vessels, which are all expected to arrive in the Philippines in 2015.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/82155/coast-guard-to-buy-old-french-navy-vessel

[호밀 크루즈]

26 years? Bulok na bibilin pa??? 

[Idiot]

wala yan sa binili natin sa US 40 years in service na

[tigerwing]

wala yan sa binili natin sa US 40 years in service na

26 years? Bulok na bibilin pa??? 

Why? Is there something wrong with the said vessels? If the hull is intact and not full of rusts, if the engines, water system, etc etc. every important parts still working fine,  if parts are available and maintainance would not be a problem, then whats wrong with an old ship?

If it can serve its intended purpose and perform its missions well, is it not good enough?

Its not the newest and most advance? Does its mission profile need it to be "new and advance"?

Remember that these are SHIPS not cellphones.

[Idiot]

Why? Is there something wrong with the said vessels? If the hull is intact and not full of rusts, if the engines, water system, etc etc. every important parts still working fine,  if parts are available and maintainance would not be a problem, then whats wrong with an old ship?

for surveying and patrol it is not a problem wala tayong pagtatalunan dyan

but in war scenarios that's a big problem

40-70 years old machines is way outdated the metal alloy, use the design of the boat is different now they have design and techniques which is much better in terms in military design
 
the type of missiles and torpedos changes
the torpedoes and missile form 50-60 years ago is far more different and very far more different than current ones they became smart now

the battleship, destroyers, cruiser, frigates  became obsolete after aircraft carriers enter the scene in WW2 even the Japanese super battleship Yamamoto and Musashi (I forgot their name) rendered hopeless against aircraft carrier

as you said there is no absolute problem using an old machines for the purpose of patrolling and surveying or transporting there no question there is no argument about that 

the real problems when we are at war those machines will be useless

[tigerwing]

for surveying and patrol it is not a problem wala tayong pagtatalunan dyan

but in war scenarios that's a big problem

40-70 years old machines is way outdated the metal alloy, use the design of the boat is different now they have design and techniques which is much better in terms in military design
 
the type of missiles and torpedos changes
the torpedoes and missile form 50-60 years ago is far more different and very far more different than current ones they became smart now

the battleship, destroyers, cruiser, frigates  became obsolete after aircraft carriers enter the scene in WW2 even the Japanese super battleship Yamamoto and Musashi (I forgot their name) rendered hopeless against aircraft carrier

as you said there is no absolute problem using an old machines for the purpose of patrolling and surveying or transporting there no question there is no argument about that 

the real problems when we are at war those machines will be useless

Who said that those vessels are for waging war? We all know the capabilities of those ships, our navy knows it, and our enemies knows it.

Again, does its mission profile need it to be "new and advance"? Do you think ships with nothing but guns are meant for war?

These ships are acquired to fulfill very basic roles that currently cannot be fulfilled simply because WE DONT HAVE ENOUGH SHIPS. Right now both the navy and the cost guard need as many ships as cheaply as they can get it. 

Asking them to fight in a war is like asking a goat to do the job of a horse. Its not their intended purpose and not the reason why the are being acquired.

[Idiot]

Who said that those vessels are for waging war? We all know the capabilities of those ships, our navy knows it, and our enemies knows it.

Again, does its mission profile need it to be "new and advance"? Do you think ships with nothing but guns are meant for war?

These ships are acquired to fulfill very basic roles that currently cannot be fulfilled simply because WE DONT HAVE ENOUGH SHIPS. Right now both the navy and the cost guard need as many ships as cheaply as they can get it.

Asking them to fight in a war is like asking a goat to do the job of a horse. Its not their intended purpose and not the reason why the are being acquired

kung di pala pang gyera e bakit yan ang binili nila madaming barko na hindi pang gyerang ang daming lumang sea vessels dyan na mas mura ng di hamak ikaw naman 

it is illogical na they buy a military vessel with guns and fitting  it with guns na hindi naman pala gagamitin ano yun design ikaw naman mas nakakabigat pa sa barko kung may armaments e kasama pa yung mga ammo nito

kung kailangan pa nila ng ships e may mga shipyard tayo sa visayas at Subic it is cheaply as they can get or bumili ng mga second na barko ng superferry  mas mura yun di naman pala pang-gyera yung mga barko ng navy e

[Idiot]

nakalimutan ko pala

kung nakukulangan ka at hindi naman pala pang gyera yung binibili ng Navy e sana gamitan lang nila ang mga RORO at superferry at mga barge natin

madami na silang barko tipid pa sila e hindi naman pala pang-gyera ang kailanangan nila

[praeto_RYAN]

maybe the point is, such vessel was once a warship.  but basing from today's standards, ship is no longer suited for war, assault or combat purposes.  para kabayo lng yan eh, dating pangkarera, ngayon display na lang siya.  we might expect a sparse trickle of military hardware, given how PNoy delivered his last SONA.  he was already reasoning that military capabilities upgrade will be very expensive.  expense that can well be used for other purposes daw. 

[pspyrock]

Rajah Humabon acquired during the time of FM was 35 years old when it was transferred to the Philippine Navy.

We are also acquiring brand new warships from other countries, but when opportunities to buy used warships at a cost efficient price rises, we need to grab that chance to acquire as many ships as possible.

Hindi lang Pilipinas ang bumibili ng lumang gamit para sa military, ginagawa din ito ng ibang bansa tulad ng Chile, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Egypt, and Canada.
http://www.navalreview.ca/wp-content/uploads/public/vol6num3/vol6num3art10.pdf

At hindi lahat ng brand new ay matibay...
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06/shipbuilder-blames-navy-as-brand-new-warship-disintegrates/
 

BTW, meron ding mga Philippine made attack crafts ang PN,

"In fact, Manila-based Propmech Corporation recently presented two (2) brand new Multi-Purpose Attack Crafts(MPACs), military gun boats, to the Philippine Navy headquarters in Manila.
"The same company built the BRP Tagbanua (AT-296), the largest and brand new Filipino naval Landing Craft Utility (LCU). It was commissioned last year." - See more at: http://diversityhuman.com/hollywood/index.php/2012/08/07/philippine-navy-local-ship-mpac-landing-craft-utility-modernization-program#sthash.CTGTkj0V.dpuf




Ship retrofitted by Propmech Corp.
BFAR Coast Guard (origin: Australia)

[tigerwing]

kung di pala pang gyera e bakit yan ang binili nila madaming barko na hindi pang gyerang ang daming lumang sea vessels dyan na mas mura ng di hamak ikaw naman 

it is illogical na they buy a military vessel with guns and fitting  it with guns na hindi naman pala gagamitin ano yun design ikaw naman mas nakakabigat pa sa barko kung may armaments e kasama pa yung mga ammo nito

kung kailangan pa nila ng ships e may mga shipyard tayo sa visayas at Subic it is cheaply as they can get or bumili ng mga second na barko ng superferry  mas mura yun di naman pala pang-gyera yung mga barko ng navy e

nakalimutan ko pala

kung nakukulangan ka at hindi naman pala pang gyera yung binibili ng Navy e sana gamitan lang nila ang mga RORO at superferry at mga barge natin

madami na silang barko tipid pa sila e hindi naman pala pang-gyera ang kailanangan nila

Seriously? Akala mo ba pang gyera lang ang silbi ng barko ng navy at coast guard? Susmiyo ka inggo!

Can you use a RORO or a barge to patrol the WPS? How fast do you think civilian vessels like "superferry" go? Tingin mo kung kasing bilis lang ng barko mo yung mga hahabulin mo eh mahahabol mo kaya? 

No guns? how would you give weapons training to your crew then? ano wala ka na talaga balak mag upgrade ng navy? Guns na nga lang ang  familiar sa kanila aalisin mo pa. And in case magkaroon ng encounter during a patrol (not necessarily against other navies) pano na? iihian mo or babatuhin mo ng etchas yung kalaban mo? And even if it is an encounter with another navy ship, a skirmish does not equate to WAR 

Built our own ships? alam mo ba kung gano katagal gumawa ng barko? Kailangan na yan ngayon eh? pano nganga muna?

Again, fighting a war is not the reason why those ships are being acquired. The Philippines cannot fight in a war at the current condition of its armed forces.

Better educate your self more about the condition of our navy/coast guard and its operations kung hindi mo maintindihan kung bakit yan ang binibili natin. 

Isip isip din pag may time.  Seriously? RoRo and barges for the Navy/Coast Guard? 

[crewzer1]

In my humble opinion, in order to decently patrol and defend our territorial waters dapat maginvest tayo in building a fleet of ships hindi yung paisa isa lang at kung ano lang yung mura, dapat may masterplan ang acquisitions para may pupuntahan.  Sa palagay ko at the minimum, we should have at least the following for our coastal/ territorial defense within the next 20 years:

12 Patrol Boats/ Fast Attack Crafts
8 Corvettes
6 Frigates
4 Cruisers
2 Destroyers
1 Amphibious assault Ship w/ choppers and amphibious landing crafts
1 Aircraft Carrier w/ aircrafts

At the very least with these ships we can say that we have an able and capable Philippine Navy

[tigerwing]

In my humble opinion, in order to decently patrol and defend our territorial waters dapat maginvest tayo in building a fleet of ships hindi yung paisa isa lang at kung ano lang yung mura, dapat may masterplan ang acquisitions para may pupuntahan.  Sa palagay ko at the minimum, we should have at least the following for our coastal/ territorial defense within the next 20 years:

12 Patrol Boats/ Fast Attack Crafts
8 Corvettes
6 Frigates
4 Cruisers
2 Destroyers
1 Amphibious assault Ship w/ choppers and amphibious landing crafts
1 Aircraft Carrier w/ aircrafts

At the very least with these ships we can say that we have an able and capable Philippine Navy

Aircraft carriers, cruisers and destroyers are way too much. We don't really need those. Our main focus for now is just to have a fleet that is capable of patrolling our territories and defending it to a certain extent. Again, the Philippines is not gearing for war.  Aircraft carriers, cruisers and destroyers are more inclined to power projection, which is not in the interest of the Philippines now or in the near future. Maybe someday..

-----------------------------------------------------

Guys, i suggest you read more about the AFP's "Minimum Credible Defense" posture

And while at it, might as well read more about the Navy's "Sail Plan 2020" and its "Desired Force Mix"

Sail Plan 2020: http://cnle.navy.mil.ph/PNSSP.htm

Desired Force Mix: http://adroth.ph/the-philippine-navys-15-year-development-plan/

[axer11]

If we are fighting the war inside the Philippines,I think it would help a lot to acquire such vessels. Remember, the Philippines is an archipelago. Hindi natin kailangan ng sobrang advance na mga barko kung kakalabanin natin ang mga abu sayaf na naka banka.

[gkhan]

Kun di ba naman isang pulpol ang utak nito.  Ano ba naman humingi ng technical assistance sa Australia, Germany or Japan at hingin lang ang mga makabagong design or magkaron ng Joint Venture with Indian companies para gawin na lang mga barko na yan dito sa Pinas kaysa magtapon ng ganyang kalaking salapi sa isang lumang barko?  Nuong WW2, ginawa ang napakaraming Liberty ships sa US sa loob lamang ng tatlong taon - sa panahon na walang computers, CAD-CAM software at makabagong slipways systems.  Ngayon na meron mga Pinoy na may sapat na experience sa paggawa ng barko sa Cebu at Subic, I am pretty sure na kayang kaya gumawa ng isang pandigmang barko sa loob ng napakaikling panahon.  Di laman magkaron ng marami trabaho at matuto pa tayong gumawa ng mga pandigmang sasakyang pandagat.  Hinahabol lang kasi ng mga ito ang comisyon sa mga pagbili.

[Carnal]

lumalabas tuloy na nagmadali na sa pagbili kung kelan sinasakop na tsaka kikilos, hindi katulad ng ibang bansa inuuna ang depensa at hindi pabaya sa teritoryo.