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Author Topic: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana  (Read 11359 times)

Magis

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2012, 10:23:54 am »
para sakin, bad ang marijuana..

di dapat yan nilalantad sa mundo..
wawa naman mga magiging anak ko nyan if ok yan to public..

would you like, PH to supply marijuana?


hahahha.. anu ko bangag? hahhahaha... zoooommm.... hahahha..
gutom na ko...


 ::lmao ::lmao     ::lmao ::lmao 

What an ignoramus... di dapat nilalantad sa mundo? Ang Diyos naglagay nyan sa mundo, sabihin mu sa Kanya sira ulo Sya.

Pall-Eren-Mnr

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2012, 10:55:48 am »
How freedom corrupted us? On the contrary.... what corrupted us is not freedom, its the government. When Laws are crafted deviating from the protection of natural rights, laws that regulate markets, give welfare, and subsidize certain sectors, all of which are arbitrary, corrupted us... I could discourse you, point by point, on why corruption is so pervasive, and freedom is not the reason. If freedom corrupts, then would you readily live a life of subservience? I guess not... Freedom corrupts is another stupid notion..

This appeal to emotion regarding prohibition is meaningless faced with principles... Ultimately, it was your friends decision to ruin their lives or not... People who eat too much face the same problem, they ruin their lives....  People who play too much games also destroy their lives.... If we are going to be consistent with your thinking, that the government has all the right to ban something that hurts people themselves, then we should advocate for banning cholesterol rich foods, a law regulating time spent on games, etc.... that is something i detest to the very core of my being...i own myself, i decide to be healthy or to be sick... If ever a friend of mine is using drugs, which i detest personally, i can try my best to convince him...but if he proceeds in doing so, what right do i have to make him live his life according to my perspective... the same goes with government, they really don;t have the natural moral position to alter personal behavior by imposing such prohibtion. We are not the property of the government.
blaming the government for our own actions is really stupid. all of us had a clean slate on our last revolution and what has happened back then, still the same shit as it. the oligarchy won't be this strong if people weren't less freedom oriented than discipline oriented (corruption won't even breed if they were more disciplined to begin with)

you do not extol to me to the argument on how i shouldn't be caring or just giving up on someone's shit when their loved ones are crying right in front of you when you could have done better or prevented that. if anyone were to go with my thinking, they (or the government) should know better than to make it legal for those reasons.

on the flip side, if they do allow mj to be legalized, it would be on a strictly controlled state, but knowing the current filipino mentality, i doubt that control would be enforced. so bam, a new loophole begins  smoking::
pick an evil and live with it till the end.

Smitty Werben Man Jensen

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2012, 12:55:17 pm »
It's a plant darn it! 100% natural. Ever since di ko ata naview ito na kasing sama ng cocain, meth, at... yosi :D

Idiot

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2012, 03:29:31 am »
Quote

You are evading the question of principle, who has the right to your own body? The concern here is whether the consumption of one good, that risks the user only, is to be prohibited by the government is a valid moral position when in fact it steps into the violation of the natural rights of that user....  Who has the sole responsibility to calculate one's risk? ultimately its the individual..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MESZh-_uyUQ&feature=related => to save you from embarassing remarks and educate yourself, its free.

nope I'm answered your question I'm just following up Pall argument and you said the government is at fault corrupting freedom having rights is freedom but having the right is been corrupt by the government from your argument so anythings has the right therefore they have freedom so if they have freedom the goverment was the sole villain to the rights of the individual as your argument that the goverment corrupt freedom therefore if a individual choose what he thinks is right and something happen to him/her who is at fault the goverment or the individual who choose what  is rights or the freedom itself?   

and still you didn't answer my question
Quote
its good to know, the leaders of the US way back its infant republic until 1913 are stoners
   
and I'm asking what happen why they ban it if it  produces something good and have a medical benefit? somethings crazy happen  can you educate me

@Fermina miss namin yung ganito madalang lang kami nakakita ng ganito heheheh 

@smitty the problem is the effect of MJ is instant and it produces bad trip and a good trip. There is no question of medical benefits but Pinoy are abusive and undisciplined people. I heard some Doctors prescribed Morphine and yet they inject themselves i dont know if they exist and reported in a news agency that some was arrested selling it to a black market their modus they prescribed Regulated pain killer then they just hide it and write to the patient chart that they given it already. In case of MJ if legalized they prescribe it and change it to a normal tobacco viola plecebo effect and the doctors get high and the patient pays for it     

unlike tobacco and alcohol takes time to die unless you drink 5-10 cases of beer or 5 keg or 1 bottle of gin bilog and you add ecstasy the recipe for a road accident 


Magis

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2012, 07:21:20 pm »
nope I'm answered your question I'm just following up Pall argument and you said the government is at fault corrupting freedom having rights is freedom but having the right is been corrupt by the government from your argument so anythings has the right therefore they have freedom so if they have freedom the goverment was the sole villain to the rights of the individual as your argument that the goverment corrupt freedom therefore if a individual choose what he thinks is right and something happen to him/her who is at fault the goverment or the individual who choose what  is rights or the freedom itself?   

and still you didn't answer my question   
and I'm asking what happen why they ban it if it  produces something good and have a medical benefit? somethings crazy happen  can you educate me

@Fermina miss namin yung ganito madalang lang kami nakakita ng ganito heheheh 

@smitty the problem is the effect of MJ is instant and it produces bad trip and a good trip. There is no question of medical benefits but Pinoy are abusive and undisciplined people. I heard some Doctors prescribed Morphine and yet they inject themselves i dont know if they exist and reported in a news agency that some was arrested selling it to a black market their modus they prescribed Regulated pain killer then they just hide it and write to the patient chart that they given it already. In case of MJ if legalized they prescribe it and change it to a normal tobacco viola plecebo effect and the doctors get high and the patient pays for it     

unlike tobacco and alcohol takes time to die unless you drink 5-10 cases of beer or 5 keg or 1 bottle of gin bilog and you add ecstasy the recipe for a road accident 



1. Please make it concise, its almost impossible to get the gist of your counter argument....  you never implied or directly answered my fundamental question of principle, who owns your body? It is quite a very simple question and yet you are pettyfogging the issue..... it's a fundamental question because it would the basis of the principles revolving rights and the role of government in a society.... anyway, if the individual harms himself, he has himself to blame. However, the government seems to believe that regulating behavior on its citizens is a good one-size fits all approach in solving these type of issues... It never has been effective.... I suggest you expand your mentality by reading about the nature of LAW, Natural  and Inalienable Rights, and Civil Liberties....

2.There was an international organization that met between 1910-1930's, forgot the exact date... They were banning substances that are considered illegal drugs.... Egypt put MJ into the list at the last minute, and it has been considered dangerous drug ever since, even though there was no scientific investigation being done. That started the drug war against MJ, medicines containing MJ before that period were slowly being regulated, then banned, then outlawed... Millions of hectares of MJ farmlands in the US were slowly being destroyed....it cost them thousands of jobs, and lost several industries... in recent years, MJ has been scrutinized repeatedly by Medical Science, and prove to have MANY medicinal values, and no direct link between MJ and many diseases which presumably it can cause... On the contrary, MJ improved the conditions of people having Lung Cancer, Parkinson's disease, Multiple Sclerosis, and Glaucoma. People using MJ can get high, but MJ has a very low addicting potential, even if smoked everyday for 1 year, they can quit the next day easy.... of course that is an exaggerated example because MJ users usually do it only 1x - 3x a month....

If the basis of its prohibtion is because of its adverse effects to human mind and body, tobacco and alcohol far surpasses MJ in this department... A MJ smoker who is stoned is in a state of euphoria, happy people don't do crimes...lol it puts them in a state of relaxation, and in a higher level of mental function. The reasons why it is prohibited is getting smaller and smaller, only its stigma remains...


For our country, it would be a great economic booster for us since the country is a good place for growing Cannabis. Let's regulate it first, Cannabis Sativa and Indica, two potent varieties of Cannabis. But we must set Cannabis ruderalis, "industrialized hemp" free from regulation and engage heavy industry, we can generate millions of jobs, and promote green revolution at the same time. It can be made into BIOFUEL, DEGRADABLE PLASTIC, CO2 absorbent Construction supplies which hardens as the years go by and decreased free CO2 in the atmosphere and decrease deforestation, it can be refined to replace cotton for clothes, papers, etc.... Outside the medical effects, Cannabis benefits the society in a great measure, only if the people are open to discover its full effects, negative and postive...

It is sad that because of its prohibtion, most people cannot even engage in a decent conversation regarding its potential for other uses because of the stigma placed on it 70 years ago... Prohibtion leads to non-discussion, non-discussion leads to non-discovery.... For more info, google about it...

Integrating my issues regarding natural rights and cannabis, i defend Cannabis use not because solely of its positive effects, but more on the defense of the ability to do my own judgement on my own body. The interference of government is a grave violation of my personal space... I am not an MJ user, nor a smoker...nor a heavy alcohol drinker... But i stand against government if they try to prohibit you from smoking, from drinking, etc...

*The prohibtion of alcohol in US caused so much damage than the alchol effects themselves, leading to its legalization...The same thing will happen to MJ and other drugs, when public funds runs dry.. *

Magis

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2012, 07:35:07 pm »
blaming the government for our own actions is really stupid. all of us had a clean slate on our last revolution and what has happened back then, still the same shit as it. the oligarchy won't be this strong if people weren't less freedom oriented than discipline oriented (corruption won't even breed if they were more disciplined to begin with)

you do not extol to me to the argument on how i shouldn't be caring or just giving up on someone's shit when their loved ones are crying right in front of you when you could have done better or prevented that. if anyone were to go with my thinking, they (or the government) should know better than to make it legal for those reasons.

on the flip side, if they do allow mj to be legalized, it would be on a strictly controlled state, but knowing the current filipino mentality, i doubt that control would be enforced. so bam, a new loophole begins  smoking::

I'm amazed by your unchallenged stupid arguments.... Just listen what you are trying to say... There won't be a strong oligarchy only if the people are less free? Oligarchy is a group of few people controlling the rest. In effect, you are saying there won't be few people controlling the rest when the rest of the people are more controlled?

What is more disciplined? You are in an obsolete paradigm of Stalin and Hitler, by suggesting that discipline is more important than freedom. Corruption of power is far greater in a state enforcing its view of "discipline" on the rest of the people, ignoring their freedom to live their lives the way they want it so that the collective discipline won't be undermined.

Loop Holes? Do you know that drug lords as well as MJ lords (i find these two separate from their effects on the body and mind) don't want the country to legalize them? Because it destroys their control and profits in the business.... With it being illegal, they command a monopoly in this industry, they can pay politicians millions of pesos as well as law enforcers...the ones they can't, they kill... It is just unrealistic to stop this drug war, even if we use the entire army of the philippines to fight it.

I indeed you are sincere in eradicating this problem, legalize it. We can lessen the crime, violence, and economic waste in this stupid war. Drug lords fear the day that MJ will be legalized. It will prevent users to progress to higher drugs. The statistics prove contrary to the common belief that MJ is a gateway drug.

Magis

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2012, 07:37:35 pm »
It's a plant darn it! 100% natural. Ever since di ko ata naview ito na kasing sama ng cocain, meth, at... yosi :D

agree...if hindi ito pinagbawal, most probably walang shabu, cocain at meth....

Pall-Eren-Mnr

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2012, 02:34:56 am »
I'm amazed by your unchallenged stupid arguments.... Just listen what you are trying to say... There won't be a strong oligarchy only if the people are less free? Oligarchy is a group of few people controlling the rest. In effect, you are saying there won't be few people controlling the rest when the rest of the people are more controlled?

What is more disciplined? You are in an obsolete paradigm of Stalin and Hitler, by suggesting that discipline is more important than freedom. Corruption of power is far greater in a state enforcing its view of "discipline" on the rest of the people, ignoring their freedom to live their lives the way they want it so that the collective discipline won't be undermined.

Loop Holes? Do you know that drug lords as well as MJ lords (i find these two separate from their effects on the body and mind) don't want the country to legalize them? Because it destroys their control and profits in the business.... With it being illegal, they command a monopoly in this industry, they can pay politicians millions of pesos as well as law enforcers...the ones they can't, they kill... It is just unrealistic to stop this drug war, even if we use the entire army of the philippines to fight it.

I indeed you are sincere in eradicating this problem, legalize it. We can lessen the crime, violence, and economic waste in this stupid war. Drug lords fear the day that MJ will be legalized. It will prevent users to progress to higher drugs. The statistics prove contrary to the common belief that MJ is a gateway drug.

if people were more less freedom oriented (like choosing leaders because of their popularity, allowing themselves to be swayed easily through bribes etc) and discipline oriented (aka, choosing leaders because of their productivity or past work, not easily swooned over) we would be in a different situation from now. the current oligarchy uses the former to their advantage

i do not extol stalin or hitler but a certain amount of discipline is needed. you seem to assume i am pointing to that direction but then you are so arguing that point to me. never did i say we needed to go to the levels of stalin or hitler, you just assumed as it.

loopholes meaning we have more access to it than it shouldn't be barring medicinal purposes. i do not to argue on supposed profits, lowered crime rates and such details considering that's just hopeful thinking if you didn't include the current philippine mentality. you could postulate on it, you could even show examples on other places but it doesn't exactly prove that making mj legal on the philippines would have the same results to those places.

pick an evil and live with it till the end.

Idiot

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2012, 04:54:12 am »
Quote
agree...if hindi ito pinagbawal, most probably walang shabu, cocain at meth...
.

i don't  think so

Cocaine - came from coca plant therefore if they legalize MJ why not cocaine if it came from plant

Quote
1. Please make it concise, its almost impossible to get the gist of your counter argument....  you never implied or directly answered my fundamental question of principle, who owns your body?

freedom is the premise not the body or etc as pall mentioned first therefore the premise is freedom corrupts people then you answered the goverment corrupt freedom this the current premise it is not the body or anything it is freedom

and as i said right is freedom so i choose freedom corrupts but you choose goverment corrupts freedom any right you have is the goverment fault as your premise so what the problem I'm using your premise in the earlier post


Quote
2.There was an international organization that met between 1910-1930's, forgot the exact date... They were banning substances that are considered illegal drugs....

so it is legal then illegalized it doesn't make sense unless their is a major destructive reason to ban it if  it is unsuccessful in that time  therefore how sure are we that it will be successful today if the anthropologist believe than the human mind and intellect is constant the differences is we used technology if that MJ will be legal even though it failed the legality at that time. 

Quote
legalize it. We can lessen the crime, violence, and economic waste in this stupid war. Drug lords fear the day that MJ will be legalized. It will prevent users to progress to higher drugs. The statistics prove contrary to the common belief that MJ is a gateway drug.

I don't get the point meth and other drugs are very difficult to manufacture unlike MJ just spread the Seed and it grows so why they focus to much to a industry like meth heroin and cocaine if they can shift to MJ drugs lords are drugs lords they fight a turf and territory not to a industry

Quote
What is more disciplined? You are in an obsolete paradigm of Stalin and Hitler,

hitler - the only problem he had was he wage war that his fault but never the less they have the advance tech at that time only achieve by discipline some analyst says if he help the jews to conquer Israel and focus to their industry they will be the superpower until today sad to say he is just human

Stalin - he's insane that's all that's not discipline ignorance is the cause that's the reason they purge the intellectual at his time. YOu can easily manipulate ignorant people if you compare it today it is  obsolete because you can learn anything even in the internet 

and why you excluded the japanese and singapore and Malaysia  they were a highly discipline countries nowadays and literally rich country.
 

kluverbucy

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2012, 09:01:13 am »
hahaha pagalingan sa pag sagot, pag english, pag explain ng point of view.. Ang point is, mangyayari kaya yang gusto nyo mangyari na gawing legal yang MARIJUANA? Ang dami siguro magpupugay dito kapag ginawang legal yan.  ::lmao  :applause  ::pampam

bertongkandule

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2012, 09:34:31 am »
Go for Legalization ako. para sa akin, malaki ang naging tulong nitong halaman na ito sa pagiging responsableng anak, asawa at empleyado ng isang magandang kumpanya.

Sa totoo lang, masyado ng maraming alam ang mga tao kaya nangyayari yang mga di pagkakaunawaan.
gawing legal at lagyan ng ngipin ang batas, sa tingin ko magiging maayos rin yan.

tanggalin lang ang negativity sa ating mga isipan, para lahat tayo umangat.


Kung may kumokontra, makinig sa side ng kabila. kung mali ka, tanggapin ang pagkakamali.

ang nangyayari kasi sa atin ngayon, puro sisihan at pagdududa, pero asan pa rin ang tayo?

WALA!


Simula High school pa lang ako, nag MJ na ako. ngayon may anak at asawa na ako, regular na akong gumagamit.

wala nmn naging masamang epekto sa akin. nasa tao lang yan! kung may matino kang pag-iisip positive ang outcome.
Pero kung utak pusakal ka, kahit walang influence ng kung ano-anong shit, pusakal pa rin ang ggwin mo.

Kaya wag na tayo masyadong magtalo, mas magandang magusap na lang ng maaus hinde yung gumagamit pa tayo ng salitang makakasakit ng damdamin ng iba. hinde ka nga nag M-MJ barubal ka naman makipagusap sa ibang tao, sino ngayon ang mukhang may problema.


one last thing, Ang MJ anjan lang yan, hinde k nmn pinipilit ng halaman na yan na gamitin mo sya. its your choice... ;)



Long Live Rastafari :)

Magis

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2012, 10:40:35 am »
if people were more less freedom oriented (like choosing leaders because of their popularity, allowing themselves to be swayed easily through bribes etc) and discipline oriented (aka, choosing leaders because of their productivity or past work, not easily swooned over) we would be in a different situation from now. the current oligarchy uses the former to their advantage

i do not extol stalin or hitler but a certain amount of discipline is needed. you seem to assume i am pointing to that direction but then you are so arguing that point to me. never did i say we needed to go to the levels of stalin or hitler, you just assumed as it.

loopholes meaning we have more access to it than it shouldn't be barring medicinal purposes. i do not to argue on supposed profits, lowered crime rates and such details considering that's just hopeful thinking if you didn't include the current philippine mentality. you could postulate on it, you could even show examples on other places but it doesn't exactly prove that making mj legal on the philippines would have the same results to those places.



What you expounded on the concept of "more less freedom" (english teachers will cry) is not really pertaining to freedom but a process called DEMOCRACY... DEMOCRACY is never equal to freedom, infact it undermines freedom, by subjugating the minorities to the whims of the majority... Its clear now that you have no grasp on the concept of freedom... by just that one example you cited, it is clear that you are confusing the idea of democracy to the idea of freedom.... Freedom never empower Oligarchs, but the illusion of freedom via democracy...

What you are implying is that most of the people (i assume you consider yourself disciplined enough to warrant a perceived authority to decry on the seeming lacking in discipline of others) are undisciplined and should be disciplined... That is a vague suggestion.. Who would you want to do the disciplining? Government? If that is the idea, then there is no difference with the Hitler paradigm, he did not became a dictator overnight. There was no violent struggle for power. He was elected via DEMOCRACY, and started disciplining Germany towards his vision of a strong Germany. Discipline were enforced one at a time, and suddenly they realized they lost all their freedom. Germany never intended to lose all their freedom, but they agreed that germans must be disciplined to contribute to the collective vision.


Current Filipino mentality? Kindly expound on something so vague, a convenient alibi on evading intellectual dissection on the issues involved... Loopholes are non existent in a legalized commodity... How could there be one? Please, use common sense. Loop holes are only existent in arbitrary legislation... Inspite the presentation of scientific fact, i doubt you have the humility to accept the results... Ego is a bitch.

Magis

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2012, 11:04:19 am »
.

i don't  think so

Cocaine - came from coca plant therefore if they legalize MJ why not cocaine if it came from plant

freedom is the premise not the body or etc as pall mentioned first therefore the premise is freedom corrupts people then you answered the goverment corrupt freedom this the current premise it is not the body or anything it is freedom

and as i said right is freedom so i choose freedom corrupts but you choose goverment corrupts freedom any right you have is the goverment fault as your premise so what the problem I'm using your premise in the earlier post


so it is legal then illegalized it doesn't make sense unless their is a major destructive reason to ban it if  it is unsuccessful in that time  therefore how sure are we that it will be successful today if the anthropologist believe than the human mind and intellect is constant the differences is we used technology if that MJ will be legal even though it failed the legality at that time. 

I don't get the point meth and other drugs are very difficult to manufacture unlike MJ just spread the Seed and it grows so why they focus to much to a industry like meth heroin and cocaine if they can shift to MJ drugs lords are drugs lords they fight a turf and territory not to a industry

hitler - the only problem he had was he wage war that his fault but never the less they have the advance tech at that time only achieve by discipline some analyst says if he help the jews to conquer Israel and focus to their industry they will be the superpower until today sad to say he is just human

Stalin - he's insane that's all that's not discipline ignorance is the cause that's the reason they purge the intellectual at his time. YOu can easily manipulate ignorant people if you compare it today it is  obsolete because you can learn anything even in the internet 

and why you excluded the japanese and singapore and Malaysia  they were a highly discipline countries nowadays and literally rich country.
 


1. I meant there won't be more dangerous drug problem.... Prohibition forces people to go to black markets, wherein unscrupulous people deal and maximize their profit by optimizing the advantage of the prohibition by selling and offering different drug products. You see, the supply of MJ are disrupted at times, what would drug dealers do? Say no, or offer other drugs? Most probably they offer new drugs, drugs that have high potential for addiction than MJ.

Another angle that we must see is the morality side of the enforcement of the prohibition. Is it really alright for people to be jailed and considered criminals for having a bad personal habit? We are putting otherwise harmless people into prisons, forced to mingle with hardline criminals... More than half of our prisoners are in there for drug use, not many drug pushers...some of them are wardens btw..

Another angle is the economic side, is there a net benefit for the prohibition of drugs? Billions of wasted money for decades and what have we to say? Are there lesser drug use now than there was before? We have been implementing drug prohibition and yet it seems drug users are getting younger, and growing in numbers. Prohibtion appeals to the young, the adrenaline-rush years of adventurism and experimentation, fault the hormones, thereby predisposing them more to it than if it were to remain legal. The history of the prohibition of alcohol in US is a good example, read about it...

2. "and as i said right is freedom so i choose freedom corrupts but you choose goverment corrupts freedom any right you have is the goverment fault as your premise so what the problem I'm using your premise in the earlier post" <= damn, i'm sorry but i can't seem to make any sense out of this gibberish. kindly rephrase it to be decent enough to be considered.

3. "hitler - the only problem he had was he wage war that his fault but never the less they have the advance tech at that time only achieve by discipline some analyst says if he help the jews to conquer Israel and focus to their industry they will be the superpower until today sad to say he is just human " <=  Its either you are trying to fit and restructure the history to your argument or you just really don't know. They have advance tech but not advanced enough to be overtaken by the British and US forces. It was a race in technology. And you know that a race is only meaningful with the final results. Hitler lost because he was out maneuvered in the later part of the war inspite of having huge advantages in the beginning of the war.

4. I suggest you read about the intricate details of these countries history before you carelessly use them as a point of comparison. Pettifogger.

Pall-Eren-Mnr

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2012, 09:02:55 am »
What you expounded on the concept of "more less freedom" (english teachers will cry) is not really pertaining to freedom but a process called DEMOCRACY... DEMOCRACY is never equal to freedom, infact it undermines freedom, by subjugating the minorities to the whims of the majority... Its clear now that you have no grasp on the concept of freedom... by just that one example you cited, it is clear that you are confusing the idea of democracy to the idea of freedom.... Freedom never empower Oligarchs, but the illusion of freedom via democracy...

What you are implying is that most of the people (i assume you consider yourself disciplined enough to warrant a perceived authority to decry on the seeming lacking in discipline of others) are undisciplined and should be disciplined... That is a vague suggestion.. Who would you want to do the disciplining? Government? If that is the idea, then there is no difference with the Hitler paradigm, he did not became a dictator overnight. There was no violent struggle for power. He was elected via DEMOCRACY, and started disciplining Germany towards his vision of a strong Germany. Discipline were enforced one at a time, and suddenly they realized they lost all their freedom. Germany never intended to lose all their freedom, but they agreed that germans must be disciplined to contribute to the collective vision.


Current Filipino mentality? Kindly expound on something so vague, a convenient alibi on evading intellectual dissection on the issues involved... Loopholes are non existent in a legalized commodity... How could there be one? Please, use common sense. Loop holes are only existent in arbitrary legislation... Inspite the presentation of scientific fact, i doubt you have the humility to accept the results... Ego is a bitch.

and i suppose the freedom we have today is undermined by democracy ? whoppeee nice. we have a democratic country that undermines our freedom that we choose leaders through popularity and other methods that hardly is good to use on. very nice indeed. our freedom has empowered oligarchs because we would rather choose such leaders despite our democracy.

the government is rather tainted now to expect such change and the disciplining part should come from the people themselves but that is where we have the problems for now. we can't be trusted on our accordance to control ourselves or pass better judgement on certain things. heck, we can't even trust others to put a dissenting opinion without having to put out threats or useless remarks. while that is evident all over the place, it is highlighted on the filipino mentality. the fact we are prone to abuse legal commodities is something i want to prevent from happening. use common sense, we abuse what we get easily hence my reason for loopholes. scientific fact or not, human nature is still prevalent among the filipinos  smoking::

i have no ego to begin with but i would only argue to things that impact me the most.
pick an evil and live with it till the end.

Magis

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2012, 10:04:16 am »
and i suppose the freedom we have today is undermined by democracy ? whoppeee nice. we have a democratic country that undermines our freedom that we choose leaders through popularity and other methods that hardly is good to use on. very nice indeed. our freedom has empowered oligarchs because we would rather choose such leaders despite our democracy.

the government is rather tainted now to expect such change and the disciplining part should come from the people themselves but that is where we have the problems for now. we can't be trusted on our accordance to control ourselves or pass better judgement on certain things. heck, we can't even trust others to put a dissenting opinion without having to put out threats or useless remarks. while that is evident all over the place, it is highlighted on the filipino mentality. the fact we are prone to abuse legal commodities is something i want to prevent from happening. use common sense, we abuse what we get easily hence my reason for loopholes. scientific fact or not, human nature is still prevalent among the filipinos  smoking::

i have no ego to begin with but i would only argue to things that impact me the most.

1. Democracy is an enemy to freedom. If you educate yourself on the basis of our Constitution, which is the US constitution, you will find no word or even a bit of implication "democracy." Their founding fathers hated democracy and purposely bounded the powers of their government to a set of laws.

We share the same sentiment towards the showbiz type process of selecting our leaders, but that is not the fault of freedom, but rather on the process called democracy. Freedom is free from control, meaning not subjecting one's life to a higher authority.

I wonder if your despise towards other people who voted leaders who you perceive negatively is the same as that of a sore loser.... Its sheer arbitrariness at its lowest level.

When i said government corrupts, its because of its nature. Government is a collective coercive force, not an angel to care for and uplift human lives. However, government is necessary, to channel that coercive force against people who initiate force against others. That is what i meant about government being bounded within the protection of Natural Rights and enforcement of contracts. The bigger the government's role in our lives, the more corrupt it gets. That's why emphasis should be on us being a REPUBLIC and not a DEMOCRATIC Country. A republic is a government bounded by fundamental laws, and natural rights, while being a democratic means a government bounded by who is in the majority at the present. Benjamin Franklin once said," DEmocracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner."

With regards to discipline, only our closest relatives can effectively do that for us, never the government. If government is so tainted, i wonder why you are implying that it is only upon them that we can be disciplined since you don't trust we have the natural sense to accord ourselves to the normal civil code of conduct. Government has the monopoly of power, and it corrupts easily. We should gear towards a smaller government rather than trying to expand its roles.


chino.pasya

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2012, 11:49:51 am »
kabilib , ang galing makipagargumento ni magis at idot  :applause  ;D parang prof ko sa philosophy  :D ang hirap pumanig kung kanino dahil pareho silang may point, pero sa huli, si sir magis padin para sakin ang nanaig  ;D  toast::  smoking::


FREE THE PLANT


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Magis

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2012, 08:25:09 pm »
Summarizing the effects of marijuana:

Negative Effects:
1. Euphoria - a sense of well-being. Some people think that this is a negative effect.
2. Loss of Inhibition? - critics attribute an effect of alcohol to MJ. MJ users don't experience loss of inhibition
3. Addiction - they claim people who use MJ will tend to be hooked and look for stronger dosage. This is a complete fallacy. MJ is habituating, like playing games, gardening, masturbating, sex, going to the gym, etc.... But it is not addicting. People don't feel a strong sense of necessity to need to have MJ, they can usually put away the behavior with ordinary level of decision making ability. You can smoke for 60 years, everyday straight, and just simply stop the next day.

BTW, Cannabinoids are naturally degraded within the Human Body. Humans produce natural Cannabinoids, and we have cannabinoid receptors concentrated in our brain, liver, marrow, and adipose tissues.

4. Gateway to other drugs - False. People who are able to freely procure MJ is least likely to indulge in higher forms of drugs, less likely than non-MJ users btw. The prohibition of MJ forces these people to be in places where the black market forces them to try other products.

5. Destroys Brain Cells - Falls, it promotes brain well-being. Relaxes the release of neurotransmitters as well as increasing the level of mental functioning. The feeling of relaxation while increasing creative thinking.

6. Causes Cancer and Schizophrenia - On the contrary, MJ reverses Cancer, and alleviates Schizophrenic episodes. Scientific studies around the world prove that MJ users are less likely to develop cancer than normal non-users. MJ contains strong anti-oxidants.

Positive Effects:
1. Euphoria
2. Relieves nausea, vomiting and loss of appetite as well as increasing levels of energy for chemo patients
3. Reverses many forms of cancer, glaucoma, chronic un-responsive pain
4. Relieves Multiple sceloris sysmptoms
5. Creative Thinking
6. High level of Antioxidants and Cannabinoids
7. CAlming effect - contrary to common notion, MJ users do not indulge in violent behavior because it suppresses their activity.
8. High in protein - essential amino acids.
 
Positive uses of Hemp
1. Automotive - BMW and Mercedes have utilized hemp based plastic for some of their components. Henry Ford was able to make a car entirely out of hemp. Hemp plastic is lighter than steel, absorbs 10x more impact. There is a video evidence of its durability, a man banged the hemp car of Ford with the back of an axe, and no dent was made. Hard as shit.
2. Paper - 1 acre of hemp = 4-8 acres of trees in a 20 year period. Hemp matures in 3-4 months. Trees need to be at least 8 years before it can be used as paper. 85% of hemp can be made into paper, 30% only for trees, the rest of it is extracted by harmful chemical substances. You see, hemp is green living! Hemp paper doesn't yellow over time.

3. Fuel - Biofuel from Hemp can replace petroleum. Henry Fords car ran entirely on hemp oil. The exhaust would be a carbon balance in the environment. But that effort was derailed because of prohibition.

4. Food - Hemp seeds are used as part of nutrition in many parts of the world. It is high in amino acids.
5. Medication - massive medical benefits. Mind blowing
6. Plastic - instead of oil-based non biodegradable plastic, hemp plastic is completely biodegradable and is not hazardous to the environment in its production
7. Construction - hemp can save millions of trees and forests, as well as diminishing the use of fossil fuels in producing cement. Hemp substitutes wood and cement at the same time, and when used as a building block, it absorbs CO2 in the air, maintain cool temp inside the house/building, water proof, and hardens over time. Buildings of conventional building materials will degrade in 40 years. Hemp based buildings are estimated to last for thousands of years, it hardens over time. Nice!
8. Fashion - Levi's used to use hemp in its jeans, credited for the durability of their products. But the prohibition forced the company to slowly shift to less quality, less durable raw materials. Hemp clothing will last for a generation.

9. Paint - Oil based paint is harmful to the environment. Hemp based plaint doesn't harm the environment in its production
10. 25,000 other uses...too many to cite.

11. Multi-Trillion Global Industry - it creates millions of jobs...MILLIONS of jobs for just one commodity. Sad to be left out with the rest of those who seize the opportunity. Even if we banned growing hemp, we are importing lots of hemp-based products. That's really illogical. Our country is very suitable for growing hemp. It is the cash king of all crops, even tobacco.


Conclusion: We are stupid to follow US prohibtion. The negative effects are miniscule compared to it massive potential. If the basis of its prohibition because of its perceived health threat, just remember, there are more people who die in drinking too much water than smoking too much weed, 0 record. Should we ban water too?

icer

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2012, 11:33:57 pm »
Ang haba na pala ng debate na ito? Hehe! Pero mga tol reality check lang yung akin. Sino or ilan sa tingin niyo ang pulitiko na susuporta para malegalize ito? Gaya ng sabi ko sa naunang page dito, ang una unang makakalaban ninyo dito ang simbahan natin. Tingnan ninyo yung rep health bill, bakit ang hirap maipasa or maisakatuparan eventhough maganda naman sana ang hangarin ng batas na ito? Kasi simbahan na mismo ang kumakalaban. Same scenario rin ang mangyayari sa paglelegalize ng marijuana. Di pa diyan kasali mga other sectors at million2x na mamamayang pinoy mismo kakalaban para di masakatuparan yan. In short, wala rin mangyayari. Kung ako lang sana, kung pwede siya na legal then why not? Pero one problem is nasa pinas tayo.
"Do, or do not... There is no try."

Magis

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2012, 01:21:01 am »
Ang haba na pala ng debate na ito? Hehe! Pero mga tol reality check lang yung akin. Sino or ilan sa tingin niyo ang pulitiko na susuporta para malegalize ito? Gaya ng sabi ko sa naunang page dito, ang una unang makakalaban ninyo dito ang simbahan natin. Tingnan ninyo yung rep health bill, bakit ang hirap maipasa or maisakatuparan eventhough maganda naman sana ang hangarin ng batas na ito? Kasi simbahan na mismo ang kumakalaban. Same scenario rin ang mangyayari sa paglelegalize ng marijuana. Di pa diyan kasali mga other sectors at million2x na mamamayang pinoy mismo kakalaban para di masakatuparan yan. In short, wala rin mangyayari. Kung ako lang sana, kung pwede siya na legal then why not? Pero one problem is nasa pinas tayo.

Sooner or later ma legalize din yan...dahil yan na ang momentum sa Western countries... Gaya2x lang mga politiko dito sa atin, kaya susunod din sila kapag alam nila maging bala nila ito para election.


Dude, iba ang RH bill at ang MJ legalization.. Maski baliwalain natin ang Simbahan, tutol din aku diyan sa RH bill.

Rh bill is against property rights. It is ingrained within the bill for tax payers to relieve many people of their reproductive health obligations. This is an interference to personal behavior and choice, same with using MJ. Let people decide how they want to live their lives and at their expenses... Hindi naman talaga maging issue ang population control kung hindi tayo sumonod sa US health care and welfare system. Mataas2x yung mga issues didto kaya ipagpaliban ku nalang kasi off topic na..


icer

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2012, 02:22:15 am »
Sooner or later ma legalize din yan...dahil yan na ang momentum sa Western countries... Gaya2x lang mga politiko dito sa atin, kaya susunod din sila kapag alam nila maging bala nila ito para election.


Dude, iba ang RH bill at ang MJ legalization.. Maski baliwalain natin ang Simbahan, tutol din aku diyan sa RH bill.

Rh bill is against property rights. It is ingrained within the bill for tax payers to relieve many people of their reproductive health obligations. This is an interference to personal behavior and choice, same with using MJ. Let people decide how they want to live their lives and at their expenses... Hindi naman talaga maging issue ang population control kung hindi tayo sumonod sa US health care and welfare system. Mataas2x yung mga issues didto kaya ipagpaliban ku nalang kasi off topic na..



Marijuana use is also against morality and values and you pretty much you know kung saan papanig ang simbahan natin... Basta sa simbahan natin ang illegal eh illegal kahit ano pang pagpapaliwanag mo. Sa issue ng rh bill... what I mean is matutulad lang sa scenario ng rh bill yung legalization ng marijuana. Marami ang kokontra to the point na walang mangyayari at malalagay lang sa baul ang batas na ito. At isa pa what do we care sa batas ng ibang bansa eh nasa pinas tayo? We have our own established set of rules and regulations na sinusunod. Batas po yan at di ginagaya lang sa iba kung di pinag iisipan rin yan ng mabuti kung magiging advantage or disadvantage siya sa mga mamamayan. Yeah tama ka diyan sooner or later pwede mangyayari... Nothing is impossible ika nga... Pero don't get all your hopes up.

Pero sa akin ok nga na illegal kasi masarap ang bawal. Hehe!
"Do, or do not... There is no try."

Magis

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2012, 03:54:01 am »
Marijuana use is also against morality and values and you pretty much you know kung saan papanig ang simbahan natin... Basta sa simbahan natin ang illegal eh illegal kahit ano pang pagpapaliwanag mo. Sa issue ng rh bill... what I mean is matutulad lang sa scenario ng rh bill yung legalization ng marijuana. Marami ang kokontra to the point na walang mangyayari at malalagay lang sa baul ang batas na ito. At isa pa what do we care sa batas ng ibang bansa eh nasa pinas tayo? We have our own established set of rules and regulations na sinusunod. Batas po yan at di ginagaya lang sa iba kung di pinag iisipan rin yan ng mabuti kung magiging advantage or disadvantage siya sa mga mamamayan. Yeah tama ka diyan sooner or later pwede mangyayari... Nothing is impossible ika nga... Pero don't get all your hopes up.

Pero sa akin ok nga na illegal kasi masarap ang bawal. Hehe!

Marijuana use is not against morality... although i understand why you are stating, basing on the perspective of the Church... But its really just the stigma... and to erase the stigma, education and information dissemination is key....

Just know the fact of its amazing benefits, who knows someday you might get cancer or someone close to you...if every treatment fails, or too expensive, just keep that little information that there is some little plant, proven by international medical science, even double blind studies, that can help you with the condition. This was the foundation of the increasing use of medical marijuana in the US.


On another issue, you might find it stupid, but yeah, we have been copying a lot of laws from the United States... Our Consitution itself is heavily influenced by the US constitution... How about K-12!? Yes, the same programs is copied from the US... How about RH bill? copied from the US, and US leaders also pressure the Phil government for its push... How about the stupid Biofuel law by Zubiri? oops, copied from US law... I can go on and on, and the trend will be, whatever US do, Philippine politicians use it as a convenient way of legislating.... of course some tweaks here and there but you get the general idea... and i won't be surprise if we will be banning sugar, if the US will ban sugar....

I'm not saying copying US laws is necessarily bad....you just know that what the US does, Philippines will follow sooner or later...

By making it illegal, we are shutting ourselves of the opportunity to profit from its economic potential as well as the medical breakthroughs it offers.... but of course, it is still a long way for it to happen....when we will be the last one to pick up...

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2012, 11:43:18 am »
Brod NAPAKA NAPAKA LAYO ng Reproductive Health Bill sa Marijuana.. Tsong.. Ayus k lang ba?  laffman:: LOL

icer

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2012, 08:33:09 pm »
Brod NAPAKA NAPAKA LAYO ng Reproductive Health Bill sa Marijuana.. Tsong.. Ayus k lang ba?  laffman:: LOL

Lol! Did you even bother to read what I've posted?
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icer

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Re: fugao gov wants to legalize marijuana
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2012, 08:58:29 pm »
Marijuana use is not against morality... although i understand why you are stating, basing on the perspective of the Church... But its really just the stigma... and to erase the stigma, education and information dissemination is key....

Just know the fact of its amazing benefits, who knows someday you might get cancer or someone close to you...if every treatment fails, or too expensive, just keep that little information that there is some little plant, proven by international medical science, even double blind studies, that can help you with the condition. This was the foundation of the increasing use of medical marijuana in the US.


On another issue, you might find it stupid, but yeah, we have been copying a lot of laws from the United States... Our Consitution itself is heavily influenced by the US constitution... How about K-12!? Yes, the same programs is copied from the US... How about RH bill? copied from the US, and US leaders also pressure the Phil government for its push... How about the stupid Biofuel law by Zubiri? oops, copied from US law... I can go on and on, and the trend will be, whatever US do, Philippine politicians use it as a convenient way of legislating.... of course some tweaks here and there but you get the general idea... and i won't be surprise if we will be banning sugar, if the US will ban sugar....

I'm not saying copying US laws is necessarily bad....you just know that what the US does, Philippines will follow sooner or later...

By making it illegal, we are shutting ourselves of the opportunity to profit from its economic potential as well as the medical breakthroughs it offers.... but of course, it is still a long way for it to happen....when we will be the last one to pick up...

Well! True True! I gotta agree with you on that one... The Problem is not the plant, ang problema ay nasa pinas tayo... Where the church somehow has the power as equal as our government . Unlike sa US na di nakikialam doon ang simbahan sa gobyerno nila and vise versa... With the church as powerful as our government that alone is already a big disadvantage na maipatupad ito... Gaya nga ng sabi ko nothing is impossible in the end... just don't get all your hopes up.
"Do, or do not... There is no try."