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Author Topic: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka  (Read 8426 times)

noknoknok

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2011, 12:01:49 am »
hinde ako kuntento pero masaya akong panalo.. pwede bang ganun nalang? di naman ako marunong magjudge eh kaya kung anung sabihin ng judge yun na yun.. di kase ako nagMAMARUNONG tulad ng iba


amen brother.

foshizzle

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2011, 12:38:42 am »
lahat nmn po siguro ng nagcomment dito ay nanood; isang tanong lang po saisfied b kyo sa ipinakitang laban ng pambansang kamao?

napaka gandang tanong nyan sir... palibhasa nga kasi nasanay tayo na nanalo ang ating pambansang kamao convincingly kaya nung huling laban parang may hinahanap hanap tayo.  pero sa katulad ko na casual fan ng boxing (i.e. kilala ko lang ay yun mga big names at konting up and coming) ang opinyon ko ay base lamang sa nakita at napanuod ko at may mga hindi ako alam na iba pang factors na kino-consider sa pag-judge ng isang boxing match. katulad halimbawa na mahirap ibigay sa challenger ang title kung last 2-3 rounds ay iiwas ka na lang sa tama kasi pakiramdam mo lamang ka sa puntos.  hindi mo pwede i-dahilan na "counter puncher si marquez kaya ganun". counter puncher din si mayweather pero kahit alam na nya na lamang siya babanatan ka pa rin nya para i-pahiya. maari din naging factor ang pagiging defending champ ni pacman kaya may consideration sa kanya sa mga dikit na round. may dahilan kung bakit may mga judges at point system sa boxing at hindi statistics at punches thrown/landed ang basehan ng decisions sa boxing matches.

kung para sa atin hindi convincing yun performance ni pacquiao to get the win... ipalagay na din natin na ganun din ang tingin ng mga judges sa performance ni marquez, sabi nga ng iba, hindi pa-championin
"Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted."

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2011, 01:13:39 am »
TAMA LAHAT NG MGA NAGSABING TALO SI MANNY!!!

at mali ang mag JUDGE na nasa ringside na kitang kita nila from multiple points of view on how the fight went down, mas naniniwala ako sa lahat ng mga tao na nasa bahay nakikinood sa TV o sa Internet ng laban at nakikita nila ang mga angulong pinipili na ipalabas sa TV kesa sa mga judge na nadun mismo sa laban, na nakaharap sa ringside at may mutiple monitors na pinapanood ang laban from numerous angles

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2011, 02:22:41 am »
the downfall of pacquiao.........

pacman:

kung ganito rin lang na sarili kong mga kababayan ang nagkakaroon ng doubt sa aking kakayahan.....para ano pang ipagpatuloy ang marubdob na pakikipaglaban?


------

ewan ko sa inyo.... smoking::


pero ang masasabi ko lang....sa dami ng sinasabi ninyong negative....bilyonaryo pa rin sya  :P


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potpotenfriends

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2011, 02:28:08 am »
di ba po per round nag iiscore ang mga judge tsaka sila mismo ang nandoon sa gilid ng ring kaya kita nila ang mga nangyayari

spell

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2011, 04:55:06 am »
dun tayo nagkakatalo. it's a calculated sport. kung suntukan lang yan sa kanto baka applicable yan.
stats are the most objective measure of any game, it really should matter.

wether you score a regular lay up or a very hard dunk, just the same -2 pts. hindi pwede manalo ang 99 dunks over 104 layups.

fairly speaking  - they both outlasted each other. if JMM's stamina and punches we're good enough PACMAN should've been knocked down. and vice versa - if MP's punches were any better...

ergo it should all boil down to the stats.

all forms of critics are welcomed by him as long as they're based on facts not just speculations. facts are reflected by the stats. we watched the game on TV but the officials were there LIVE. again. nagmamagaling nanaman tayo versus the rules of the game, the judges and the compubox itself. magaling na magaling na tayong lahat sa boxing.  :applause

non-believers: mabuhay tayong lahat at magdusa ka manny dahil mas magaling kami magscore sa boxing kaysa sayo at sa judges haha. (sarcasm)  :)

mas mabenta kasi sa mga tao ang masamang hakahaka kaysa sa wastong balita.

"The most widely used scoring system since the mid-twentieth century is the "10-point must system", so named because a judge "must" award ten points to at least one fighter each round (before deductions for fouls). Most rounds are scored 10-9, with 10 points for the fighter who won the round, and 9 points for the fighter the judge believes lost the round. If a round is judged to be even, it is scored 10-10. For each knockdown in a round, the judge deducts an additional point from the fighter knocked down, resulting in a 10-8 score if there is one knockdown or a 10-7 score if there are two knockdowns. If the referee instructs the judges to deduct a point for a foul, this deduction is applied after the preliminary computation. So, if a fighter wins a round, but is penalized for a foul, the score changes from 10-9 to 9-9. If that same fighter scored a knockdown in the round, the score would change from 10-8 in his favor to 9-8."[wiki]

As what the quote implies, it's not based on stats but on the judge's judgment with the exception of deductions from fouls and knockdowns. So to compare boxing to basketball is clearly wrong as their point mechanics is entirely different.

The point in criticizing his performance isn't about trying to put him down because that would contradict to the purpose of criticism itself. The criticisms are directed to the boxer/performance, not the person. Pacquiao and everyone who agrees with his sentiments are taking things personally and to consider it as a case of crab mentality is just downright retarded.

If you or anyone agree and be happy with it merely on having the same nationality as his, then you're being blind and extremely biased.

meteor freak

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2011, 05:45:33 am »
lahat nmn po siguro ng nagcomment dito ay nanood; isang tanong lang po saisfied b kyo sa ipinakitang laban ng pambansang kamao?
hindi ako na satisfied sa naging performance ni manny dahil gusto ko makita kung paano nya patumbahin si Marquez para mawala yung yabang nya bagamat hindi nya nagawa yun hindi ko din naman nagustuhan yung istilo at performance ni marquez kaya para sakin si manny pa din ang panalo ng walang duda. We should close this story and look forward for the new chapter of their fight kung magkakaron man.


para naman po sa mga Pilipino na hindi naniniwala sa pagkapanalo ni pacman ito po ang mapayapang tanong ko. Sa mga nakaraang laban ni Pacman labis ka bang natuwa na makita kung paano nya talunin ang mga kalaban knock-out man o hindi ang kanyang pagkapanalo? Natutuwa ka ba nung kilalanin sya sa buong mundo bilang number one pound for pound King? At sa huling laban nya kay Marquez, hindi ka ba nanalangin na sana ay manalo sya? Kung hindi mo naramdaman iyon marahil ay Mexicano ka. opinyon lang po. peace mga ka espiya.
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noknoknok

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2011, 06:04:11 am »
"The most widely used scoring system since the mid-twentieth century is the "10-point must system", so named because a judge "must" award ten points to at least one fighter each round (before deductions for fouls). Most rounds are scored 10-9, with 10 points for the fighter who won the round, and 9 points for the fighter the judge believes lost the round. If a round is judged to be even, it is scored 10-10. For each knockdown in a round, the judge deducts an additional point from the fighter knocked down, resulting in a 10-8 score if there is one knockdown or a 10-7 score if there are two knockdowns. If the referee instructs the judges to deduct a point for a foul, this deduction is applied after the preliminary computation. So, if a fighter wins a round, but is penalized for a foul, the score changes from 10-9 to 9-9. If that same fighter scored a knockdown in the round, the score would change from 10-8 in his favor to 9-8."[wiki]

As what the quote implies, it's not based on stats but on the judge's judgment with the exception of deductions from fouls and knockdowns. So to compare boxing to basketball is clearly wrong as their point mechanics is entirely different.

The point in criticizing his performance isn't about trying to put him down because that would contradict to the purpose of criticism itself. The criticisms are directed to the boxer/performance, not the person. Pacquiao and everyone who agrees with his sentiments are taking things personally and to consider it as a case of crab mentality is just downright retarded.

If you or anyone agree and be happy with it merely on having the same nationality as his, then you're being blind and extremely biased.

Majority of judges' decision were consequently aligned with the stats, proving it was valid. It would have been a more controversial decision if Marquez won seeing the greater number of punches Manny landed.

and i agree with majority of the judges, not because of my nationality.

Common sense: Analogy. without being too technical, basketball shots are like punches. more punches landed than the opponent, better. more shots made than the opponent, better. regardless if it was a strong haymaker or a just a straight jab. dunks or freethrows - whatever, you don't have to explain the nitty gritty, may deductions ba? may knock outs ba?

We're talking about this fight not the whole technical sport of boxing versus basketball.

Your point is - manuel marquez was flashier. was a stronger puncher (but not implying a greater volume of punches) until the 9th-ish round when he wore-off. should he be the winner just because the TV angle caters that flashiness, just because he allegedly destroyed pacman's rhythm...

My point is - manny was connecting more shots. not as ridiculously strong as before. our expectations failed us, but hey. boxing doesn't have any rule for rhythm, style or whatever you're complaining of. backread your comments.

Spell: "nasira ni Marquez yung rhythm ni Pacquiao... hindi naman dapat na i-base lang sa stats... Naging effective yung style ni Marquez at nagawan ba ng paraan ni Pacquiao yun?"

Rhythm off or whatever. Filipino or not. more punches for MP. no knockouts. he won. period.

TAMA LAHAT NG MGA NAGSABING TALO SI MANNY!!!

at mali ang mag JUDGE na nasa ringside na kitang kita nila from multiple points of view on how the fight went down, mas naniniwala ako sa lahat ng mga tao na nasa bahay nakikinood sa TV o sa Internet ng laban at nakikita nila ang mga angulong pinipili na ipalabas sa TV kesa sa mga judge na nadun mismo sa laban, na nakaharap sa ringside at may mutiple monitors na pinapanood ang laban from numerous angles

hahahaha winner!  ::lmao

sajangnim

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2011, 11:50:08 am »
the first time i watched the bout broadcasted by Showtime it seems JMM won. But after a week i downloaded and watched the HBO broadcast and i found Manny  ahead in points and winning majority of the rounds. i guess the fight commentators greatly affects our viewing. try it yourselves...

sajangnim

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2011, 11:53:56 am »
correction Primetime not showtime :P

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2011, 12:32:28 pm »
im sure yung mga haters na yan din nagsabi na... idol kita manny , proud kaming mga pilipino sayo...

nyahaha hindi pa natatalo si manny ang dami na bumabaliktad... ganyan ang tunay na fans nang-iiwan sa ere...
 

Yan pag kakaiba ng Fans ng Boxing at Ni Manny Pacquiao  VS  Fanatics(Lunatic) Fans ni Manny Pacquiao.

erap

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2011, 12:42:48 pm »
80% ng mga pilipino ang nauuto ng media kasama na ang iba sa mga espiya... uto-uto ka kasi kaya ka nagkaka ganyan. hehehe... peace... nakita ko ng bumagsak si marquez pero kahit kelan hindi ko pa sya nakitang nahilo kaya bawat opinyon na sinasabi sa tv na round 9 lang tatagal si marquez di ako naniniwala.. saka isa pa, laging sinasabi ng media na todo insayo daw si pacman, bakit si pacman lang ba ang nag eensayo para sa tagumpay? hindi naman diba.. nag ensayo din ng todo si marquez at uminom ng madaming ihi. pero ganon pa man, hindi sapat ang naging ensayo nya para matalo si sir.MP...

naniniwala ako na si pacman talaga nanalo sa laban. wag kasi kayong magulat sa mga nangyayaring pagbabago.lahat may pagbabago. ganon din ang laro ni marquez at pacman. katulad ng mga favorite players nyo. si kobe, si le bron kahit mismo si JORDAN nagbago din ang laro..

ung iba sa mga pilipino nakikisakay sa tagumpay ni pacman. proud to be pinoy ika nga.. pero ngayong hindi nyo nagustuhan ang laban ni pacman idinidiin nyong talo sya at masaklap,ikinahihiya pang nanalo sya..kawawa naman si MP.

hay naku...haha... basta ako manalo matalo si pacman mag eespiya pa din ako..  toast:: toast:: toast::
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batman217

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2011, 02:21:37 pm »
Para kay Ed Tolentino at Ronnie Nathanielz (pero Sri Lankan ito) ang pasaring ni Pacman na ito.

Inggit lang kasi ang kupal na pekeng pinoy na si nathanielz at hanggang abs-cbn sports na lang sya, di nakakarating ng vegas pag may laban si pacman kasi di naman sya tao ng solar sports kaya ganun makapanlait.
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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2011, 03:47:13 pm »
lahat nmn po siguro ng nagcomment dito ay nanood; isang tanong lang po saisfied b kyo sa ipinakitang laban ng pambansang kamao?



as for me masaya ako na nanalo but the bottom line is may kulang ok lang na hindi knockout ang kalaban sabi nga ng lolo ko hindi rin maganda ung maagang knockout mas maganda kng habang tumatagal umiinit ang laban boring nmn siguro kng 1st or 2nd round tulog na sa ring yung kalaban at hindi porket sinabi ng tao na talo si pacman literal na talo sya pra sakin talo sya sa sarili nya malalim ba? gusto ko lang sabihin na parang hindi sya ung pacman na lumalaban sa ring may punto pa rin ang mga boxing analyst tulad nila nathanielsz

yonipspy

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2011, 05:18:45 pm »
siguro ang mga nag negative comment dyan ay mga talonan hahaha bakit ba kasi binigyan ng partida hahaha

baka ang basihan nila yung kuha lang sa mga highlights sa tv...  :P :P lol

basta ako hapi ako sa pagkapanalo ni kamao pacman  toast::


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foshizzle

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2011, 06:13:49 pm »
sabi nga sa isang sine, "it doesn't matter if you win by a mile or an inch, winning's winning." give pacman the credit he deserves. he's still the champ.... may dahilan kung bakit may judges sa boxing at hindi purely based on statistics katulad ng mga ball games.  problema  nga kasi nagkaroon ng malaking expectation kaya marami ang nakaramdam ng pagka- let down... at kung igigigil nyo na stats ang pinagbabasehan ng decision pagkatapos ng 12 rounds of boxing sa inilabas ng HBO na statistics ng punches thrown/landed, jabs at power punches lamang si pacman.

totoo na may mga analyst na nagsasabi na marquez was robbed.  pero karamihan sa mga nagsasabi nu'n ay dahil sa sobra dikit ng laban they felt it should have been scored closer i.e. 115-144 for pac or 115-144 for marquez or draw. 116 - 112 for pacman would mean 8 rounds for pacman and 4 for jmm... rounds 5,6,7 and 8 was clearly for jmm and they thought hindi lang yun ang rounds ni marquez.  it should have been closer - hence, JMM was robbed. 

sabi pa ng isang analyst the “champion” and “money rules” apply to pacman. in a close fight, the champ gets the nod. a draw would have caused even further outrage. a win for marquez would flush away the $100 million fight with floyd vs. pac.

though i am for pacman, all-the-way, win or lose.. champ or no champ. di ko maitatanggi, JMM got his number.. kung sa pinoy kontra-pelo siya ni pacman.
"Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted."

spell

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2011, 08:55:28 pm »
Majority of judges' decision were consequently aligned with the stats, proving it was valid. It would have been a more controversial decision if Marquez won seeing the greater number of punches Manny landed.

and i agree with majority of the judges, not because of my nationality.

Common sense: Analogy. without being too technical, basketball shots are like punches. more punches landed than the opponent, better. more shots made than the opponent, better. regardless if it was a strong haymaker or a just a straight jab. dunks or freethrows - whatever, you don't have to explain the nitty gritty, may deductions ba? may knock outs ba?

We're talking about this fight not the whole technical sport of boxing versus basketball.

Your point is - manuel marquez was flashier. was a stronger puncher (but not implying a greater volume of punches) until the 9th-ish round when he wore-off. should he be the winner just because the TV angle caters that flashiness, just because he allegedly destroyed pacman's rhythm...

My point is - manny was connecting more shots. not as ridiculously strong as before. our expectations failed us, but hey. boxing doesn't have any rule for rhythm, style or whatever you're complaining of. backread your comments.

Spell: "nasira ni Marquez yung rhythm ni Pacquiao... hindi naman dapat na i-base lang sa stats... Naging effective yung style ni Marquez at nagawan ba ng paraan ni Pacquiao yun?"

Rhythm off or whatever. Filipino or not. more punches for MP. no knockouts. he won. period.

I'll give you a scenario.

               Landed    Thrown    Accuracy
Boxer A --   480       600       80%
Boxer B --   375       700       53.57%

400 of Boxer A's punches that landed came from the first 5 rounds. The remaining 80 came from the remaining rounds.
50 of Boxer B's punches that landed came from the first 5 rounds. The remaining 325 came from the remaining rounds.

If boxing works like basketball, then the case above is irrelevant as the total stats would be heavily influence the outcome of the fight. A boxer doesn't win just by landing more punches that the other. The performance is still the biggest factor to determine the winner. The only similarity that boxing have with basketball is getting the total score of all rounds.

At times, Marquez had at awkward footing. He also seem to have a pattern whenever he throws a combination (he would lean to his left). Despite all of this, Marquez still managed to ruin Pacquiao's rhythm. Pacquiao was unable to find his rhythm and failed to take advantage of Marquez' openings/weakness.

In other words, Marquez was the better fighter. He won the fight.

sadista

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2011, 11:26:44 pm »
Kahit anu pa naging decision ng judges ayos lang sakin. Kaso hindi ako ng enjoy masyado nakatulog na ako 3rd round pa lang. Tapos sa internet na lang ako ng check kung sino panalo. At yun na nga decision. :) sayang gusto ko sana mapa tulog ni Pacman si JMM para naman kabugin si Mayweather. haha!

Pero parang ayos narin na medyo may controversy ung pagka panalo para naman lumaban na talaga tong si Mayweather. Parang tipong mahina pala tong si Pacman sa counter puncher ayos pasok ako jan. haha!

Pero tingin ko parin pag naglaban si Mayweather at Pacman. Mayweather parin panalo via decision. Ito ay sariling opinyon ko lng. :)


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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2011, 01:36:17 am »
eh di panalo na kung panalo, pero no. 2 pa rin siya sa ring magazine, yahoo sp smoking:: at espn....

noknoknok

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2011, 06:29:28 am »
I'll give you a scenario.

               Landed    Thrown    Accuracy
Boxer A --   480       600       80%
Boxer B --   375       700       53.57%

400 of Boxer A's punches that landed came from the first 5 rounds. The remaining 80 came from the remaining rounds.
50 of Boxer B's punches that landed came from the first 5 rounds. The remaining 325 came from the remaining rounds.

If boxing works like basketball, then the case above is irrelevant as the total stats would be heavily influence the outcome of the fight. A boxer doesn't win just by landing more punches that the other. The performance is still the biggest factor to determine the winner. The only similarity that boxing have with basketball is getting the total score of all rounds.

At times, Marquez had at awkward footing. He also seem to have a pattern whenever he throws a combination (he would lean to his left). Despite all of this, Marquez still managed to ruin Pacquiao's rhythm. Pacquiao was unable to find his rhythm and failed to take advantage of Marquez' openings/weakness.

In other words, Marquez was the better fighter. He won the fight.

Considering how you explained it, here's the actual scenario:



Stats and judges decision are most impartial. as proof, they were almost in sync. When a fight is this close it's the safest to review scorecards to validate the judges decision.

"rhythm" and "performance", are mere forms of speculation. It varies as for whoever was appreciating which. connotatively speaking of bias.

Criticism is only proper if you don't take it or give it personally.

The fight was really close, no argument. MP was aggressive, hitting more but not so powerful. JMM was inaggresive, hitting less yet stronger -but still not enough.

Scorecards and judge's decision were more objective than any of our hindsight on tv screens.

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2011, 03:45:23 pm »
sa vegas.. doblado talaga si pakyaw... kaya wala halos pumupusta kay marquez...

ang pustahana sa vegas eh kung matumba si marquez vs hindi matumba... yun ang pustahan sa vegas...

pero dami pa ring pumupusta na matumba si marquez... kaya ang team pakyaw at team bob arum... pumupusta sila ng pasekreto na di matutumba si marquez...

kayang kayang itumba ni pakyaw si marquez... maraming pagkakataong pwedeng pakawalan ni pakyaw ang left hook niya para matumba si marquez...

pero di nya ginawa kasi takot si pakyaw na matumba si marquez... malaki sigurado talo niya...

kung titingnan mo yung unang dalawang away nila... kung paano natumba si marquez doon...

may scene din sa huling away nila na pwedeng pwedeng gamitin ang left hook at malaking pagkakataon talaga... pero di nga nangyari kasi ayaw gamitin ni pakyaw ang pamatay na left hook nya...

kaya sa puntos na lang binawi ni pakyaw... 

sa madaling salita... pera pera din yan para kay pakyaw...  panustos niya sa sususnod na election...

raberdaki

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2011, 08:08:26 pm »
OT: ako di talaga ako naniniwala sa nathanielz (sports analyst daw) na yan nakakataw yan mag analyze ng boxing mukhang mas marunong pa sa referee makakita lang ng knockdown kahit nagulat lang gusto na agad ipatigil ang laban at biased din mga opinions niya hahahaha

on topic: lahat ng magagaling na atleta ay may mga off night performance din masama ang gising kumbaga hehe...

AlPacino

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2011, 03:26:53 pm »
eh pati katulong namin alam na ang panalo si JMM eh kahit siguro hindi ganun kagaling sa boxing makikita na talo talaga si manny eh...

Idiot

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Re: Pacquiao to critics: Magpakatotoo ka
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2011, 06:17:04 pm »
di mo kase masisi ang mga kababayan natin

they paid 800 pesos or 1500 pesos for the paperview is like watching a favorite star gusto mo sa frontrow sa boxing gusto mo unang-una ka

and yet pacquio performance was to poor to satisfy the paying viewers it sucks ika nga it is a shitty movie or overrated overhyped movie na pagkamahal-mahal

unlike sa di nagbayad syempre enjoy sila di nga naman sila nagbayad nanood sila sa internet or local tv